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Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:56 pm
by weloveseaplanes
. . . as my wife is gonna kill me when she finds out I bought this app. :oops:

We play lots of games together, but she hates the delays looking through charts and consulting tables and rolling a series of dice to get a result.

For example we play a home made simplified version of Victory at Sea, a WW2 tactical naval wargame.

I'd love to have Dicenomicon do everything for her with one shake of her wrist please.

Trouble is I'm a bear of small brain completely out of my jar of honey and the clock is counting till she finds Dicenomicon on 'our ipod' (yes fellas once your married you no longer have exclusive possessions like 'my ipod')


1 We input a little data for each shot.
shell selection
barrels firing
targeting modifiers
target class
target armour
damage modifiers

2 The magical Dicenomicon roll a d6 per barrel, computes hits, normal and critical damage and displays it to my bedazzled wife.

Example display:
"Four shells fired. Two hits for 2 damage. Bridge destroyed"

That's gotta be simply to set up yes?

MORE DETAIL----------------------

- Input shell selection - either Armour Piercing (1 damage but +1 critical chance) or High Explosive (2 damage)
- Input barrels firing (ranges from 2 to 12, each main turret has from 2 to 4 barrels)
- Input modifiers (ranges from -5 to + 5, extreme range, target in smoke, flank speed etc etc)
- Input target number (ranges from 1 to 6, target is, building, battleship, cruiser, destroyer)
- Input target armour (ranges from 1 to 6, civilian, warship class etc)
- Input damage modifiers (ranges from -2 to + 2, plunging fire, shell type, often duds etc)

Roll to Hit
- roll d6 per barrel to obtain a hit or miss
- compare against target number modified by modifiers
- if equal to or higher a shell has hit

Roll damage per hit
- roll d6 per shell hit to obtain hit results
- 3 potential hit results (didn't penetrate armour, penetrated armour for normal hit, penetrated armour for normal and critical hit)

Roll for any critical damage
- display one of up to 12 critical damage results (main turret destroyed, fire control destroyed etc)

My wife shoots at me = The Bismark fires at the Hood. Lets say she is charging towards me at long range so she can only bring her A and B turrets to bear.

My wife inputs the following :
shell selection : Armour Piercing
barrels firing : 4
targeting modifiers : -1
target class : 4
target armour : 5
damage modifiers : + 1

She's firing her front two turrets which is why she inputed 4 barrels so there are four shells screaming down towards me on the bridge of the Hood. Four barrels = four shells = four to hit rolls required.
example dice rolls = 2, 5, 5, 6
modified dice totals = 1,4,4,5 (modifier is - 1 as input by wife in the 'targeting modifier' screen)
hits scored = three (Hoods target number is 4 and three modified to hit rolls are 4 or higher)

three hits give three attempts to penetrate armour
example dice rolls : 1, 4, 6
modified dice rolls : 2, 5, 7 (modifier is + 1 as input by wife in the 'damage modifier' screen)
damage = 2 (Hoods armour is 5 and two modified damage rolls are 5 or higher)
<had she used High Explosive shells the damage would be 4 as each HE shell does 2 damage compared with 1 damage for an AP shell>

two armour penetrated hits give two chances for critical hits
critical hits require a 6
shell selection was Armour piercing which gives +1 critical damage chance
example rolls : 2, 5
modified dice rolls : 3, 6
critical hits = 1 (require 6 or higher for a critical hit and one modified critical damage roll is 6)

one critical hit requires one critical damage allocation roll
12 potential locations exist.
Lets say she rolls number 1 = Bridge destroyed

So the results we see on our ipod are:
"Four shells fired. Two hits for 2 damage. Bridge destroyed"

My wife looks with wonder at how much rolling and checking charts the Dicenomicon saved us, acknowledges my great wisdom in purchasing it and then, and forever onwards encourages me to buy as many iphone Apps as I want . ..

so i off course fund Gandreas's next overseas holiday by buying all his apps.

:D So, how do we all reach such a blissful state please?
(I have absolutely no idea at all how to program the above so really need some help please)

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:38 pm
by weloveseaplanes
A day closer to doom has approached . . .

Anybody out there able to help please?

Sorry I can't work out how to write out the following in the arcane Dicenomicon language but thought perhaps a flow of the above program would go along the following lines . . .

Does it help?

"hits" - Dicenomicon calculated number of shells that hit
"penetrations" - Dicenomicon calculated number of shells that do damage
"damage"- Dicenomicon calculated amount of damage inflicted
"critical hits"- Dicenomicon calculated number of critical hits
"critical hit locations"- Dicenomicon calculated critical hit location(s), if any

input - by user each time
"shell selection" (AP, HE)
"barrels firing"(2 to 16)
"targeting modifiers" (-5 to +5)
"target class" (3 to 6)
"target armour" (3 to 6)
"damage modifiers" (-2 to +2)

- Dicenomicon works out . . .

roll "barrels firing" d6

if "barrels firing" d6=>"targeting number" + "target class"
then increase "hits" by one

roll "hits" d6

if "hits" d6 => "target armour" + "damage modifier"
then increase "penetrations" by one

each "penetrations" by AP shell increase "damage" by one
each "penetrations" by HE shell increase "damage" by two

roll "penetrations" d6
if "penetrations" d6 (+1 if AP shell) => 6 then increase "critical hits" by one

roll "critical hits" d12 to obtain "critical hit location"

"(barrels firing) shells fired. (hits scored) hits for (damage) damage. (critical hit location) destroyed."

So the results we see on our ipod are:
"Four shells fired. Two hits for 2 damage. Bridge destroyed"

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:37 am
by Tektat04
Working on it. Your flow description helps. All I need now is the critical hit location table.

Within the next 12 hours you will have your answer.


Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:59 pm
by weloveseaplanes
Wow! Thanks so much Steph, can't even believe someone out there is kind and diligent enough to go to all this trouble for us, South Pacific strangers as we are. Thank you so much. Glad to hear the flow description helps. It can all be a bit tricky understanding some-else's writing so hats off to you for piecing this all together.

The Critical hit locations you need follow but first a quick explanatory note.
The description in quotes is to be displayed on the iPod.
The number in brackets is the extra amount of damage inflicted and is to be added to the variable of "damage" that Dicenomicon has been calculating.

So in the aforementioned 'wife hits Hood bridge barrage' the results to be displayed on the ipod are:
"Four shells fired. Two hits for 5 damage. Bridge destroyed"
(the 5 damage is made up of 1 damage for each of the two AP shell hits and 3 damage for the critical result of Bridge destroyed).

Critical hit locations :

1 "Bridge destroyed" (+3 damage)
2 "Damage Control Center destroyed" (+2 damage)
3 "Fire Control Center destroyed" (+1 damage)
4 "Engine Room destroyed" (+3 damage)
5 "Rudder destroyed" (+2 damage)
6 "Turbine destroyed" (+1 damage)
7 "Main Turret destroyed" (+3 damage)
8 "Main Turret destroyed" (+3 damage)
9 "Half Secondary Weapons destroyed" (+3 damage)
10 "Torpedo Tubes destroyed" (+3 damage)
11 "Ships Lucky Cat destroyed" (+0 damage)
12 "Magazine destroyed" (+7 damage)

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:46 pm
by Tektat04
Got it working.

A few more question before finalizing the code.

What the rule about rolling the same critical hit multiple times in the same attack?

Can the same location be damage in subsequent attacks?

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:38 pm
by weloveseaplanes
Gidday Gidday Steph,

Am really looking forward to seeing your work in action.

I believe the base model you are creating will be infinitely useful in a wide variety of games and situations. All the best with the final touches.

Q - "Can the same location be damage in subsequent attacks?"

Yes. Its fine to print out the same message/damage as well.

However, one slight correction regarding critical hit location 12 - "Magazine destroyed."

As it currently stands a critical hit here would do massive, but not catastrophic damage like befell the Hood on May 24th 1941. Is it possible that if a critical hit of 12 "Magazine destroyed" occurs then the Dicenomicon immediately checks for that one in a million fluke shot.

This can be simulated by the Dicenomiconre rolling a d18 and on an 18 the following occurring :

"Catastrophic Magazine Explosion, Vessel destroyed!"

This means there is a 1 in 216 chance of the vessel being destroyed by a critical hit (12 for the initial critical hit *18 for the above ). This is the same chance as in the official Victory at Sea rules.

Any result other than 18 simply reverts to "Magazine destroyed" (+7 damage)

Is this is a possible addition please Steph?

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:08 am
by Tektat04
I'll add the magazine explosion to the code. It will now take five formulas to check the results, but you will only be ever imputing data on the one title "Start Here".

I found a bug last night in the export/import function. Good news is I've also found the work around.

I'll post the game room so you can import it to your device within the next 24 hours. it 6 in the morning here and if I can't get it done before leaving for work it will need to wait till I get back late in the evening.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:04 am
by Tektat04
Got it done.

Down load the file from here: and save it on the computer you use to sync your iPod.

To upload the file to Dicenomicon you need to sync your iPod to iTunes, select the iPod under device, got the apps tab, under file sharing select Dicenomicon and add the file and sync again.

To add the game room to Dicenomicon goto settings, sharing, import from documents and select the file.

To fix the bug in the import file goto setting, favorite rolls and edit the description of all the rolls by removing the 2 space add to the end of the descriptions. After that you should be good to go.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:55 pm
by weloveseaplanes
Wow! That's absolutely incredible.

Fantastically done. I love it how you've set it up. Plug in the data at the start and then watch the five rolls race through all the thousands of possibilities.

You know its quite revolutionary . .. .

I can't believe it.

Followed your instructions and it all worked out beautifully. Couldn't resist rolling, and rerolling, and rerolling till the Catastrophic Magazine Explosion occurred. What a blast!

Wow. Was it hard to make? Was it a pain? Was it an enjoyable challenge?

Its superb.

Thank you very much :!:

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:02 pm
by Tektat04
It was an enjoyable challenge. I'm glad that you are enjoying it.

Is this a home ruled simplified version of Mongoose's Victory at Sea?

The reason ask is that I got a chance got go to my FLGS at lunch the other day to check out the Mongoose rule. Very similar but with some major differences. For one thing, a 1 is an automatic miss no matter how many positive modifiers. That's not in the code right now but would be easy to do.

If there is any other detail you would like to add let me know.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:42 pm
by weloveseaplanes
Glad to hear that it was an enjoyable challenge. I've looked through your code and despite having read and read the manuals its so far above what I could ever have contemplated doing. Once again thank you very much.

Yes this is a simplified version of Mongoose's Victory at Sea.

Yes there are a couple of other details that we would love added, but as foolish as I am, I'm wise enough to never ask for too much so I understand if you can't be bothered to add in the 'polishing requests' below.

On the off chance that you would like to refine it some more, please excuse me for asking if you might please consider implementing the following:

Just as you mentioned. Regardless of the modifiers a one result is a miss.

(this will be tricker than the mod above I'm sorry).

As the program stands now all shells have the chance to do equal damage. This is obviously glaringly unrealistic. Destroyers fire very light shells, cruisers heavier shells, then battleships, then 'super battleships.' Victory at Sea simulates this progression in potential damage inflicted by increasing shell sizes by assigning each weapon system a number of damage dicing, ranging from 1 (for destroyer caliber weapons) to 4 (for battleships like the Yamamoto).

So to simulate this an additional step needs to be inserted in the initial VARIABLE INPUT screen and the in the calculation series between roll to hit and check for critical.

Input Shell Caliber (1 to 4)

Each hit currently has one chance to penetrate the targets armour.
This doesn't allow for the increased destructiveness of larger shells.

Each hit should have 1 to 4 chances of penetrating the targets armour, based on the inputed shell caliber number.

For example the Bismark fires her two forward turrets at the Hood. Her Shell Caliber rating is 3. So four shells coming blasting through the dawn mist towards the unsuspecting Hood. Lets say two hit. Each 'hit' carries 3 chances worth of destructive potential to overcome the Hoods value armour of 5. Two hits with three chances each would therefore require 6d6 attempting to penetrate.

Each penetration would cause one (AP) or two (HE) damage and have a one in six chance of a critical hit.

This allows of course for much wilder swings of inflicted damage and makes for a much exciting game . . .

Sorry to ask for so much. If possible the above improvements would be great thank you very much.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:35 pm
by Tektat04
I'll work on it.

Automatic fails one 1s is easy. Just one question, does it apply to the damage roll?

As for the shell size, I believe it's doable. It will require a change in the data input. Dicenomicon only allows up to 6 parameters per formula. What I can do is split the input over two formulas. The Start Here formula would have the attack dice quantity, targeting modifier, target class. If there are hits then you would be prompted to input the damage class, damaging modifier, AP?, and target armour.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:22 pm
by weloveseaplanes

Sorry for the extra work this entails.

I Understand that there are now seven variables (parameters) to consider and the Dicenomicon only allows for six per formula. You correctly list them as :" attack dice quantity, targeting modifier, target class. . . damage class, damaging modifier, AP?, and target armour."

It appears there are two ways around that problem. One way is as you to suggest to divide the 7 parameters between two formulas.

Reading through the guide though there is though, potentially, a neater solution which only requires 6 inputed variables. Please excuse me for drawing you even deeper down the rabbit hole . . .

1 - what is firing (the Bismark)
2 - at who (the Hood)
3 - with how much (4 barrels, as front two targets in our ongoing example)
4 - with what ammo (Armour Piercing or High Explosive)

5 - targeting modifier (depends on range, light etc)
6 - damaging modifier (depending on range - longer plunging shots do more damage)

The NON VARIABLES are already determined by the player choices of who is firing at who :
A - the target class
B - the target armour
C - the firer's damage class (= shell caliber = 1 to 4 depending on the firing ship)

Now if the NON VARIABLE data for the Bismark and Hood were listed in a game room that the Dicenomicon could access then it could draw the information for A, B, and C from that preprogrammed data. This would be way cool because
a) it would save the players having to enter it every shoot
b) it would reduce the number of paramaters to 6 so you'd be able to keep the original formula and just ask it to consult the appropriate 'character sheet' (= ship data sheet) for the target class, target armour and firer damage class (A,B, C).

That would mean that the INPUT SCREEN would look like :
TARGET (from a draw down list of ship names)
FIRER (from a draw down list of ship names)
BARRELS (1 to 16 - please note change to 1)

SHIP DATA (here is the data for the four vessels that clashed that fateful day)
Prinz Eugen---------5/3/1
Prince of Wales---4/6/2

Would this be within the realms of possibility?

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:37 pm
by Tektat04
Lots to mull over.

I'll get back to you on this.

Re: Please help save this murder victim . . .

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:49 pm
by weloveseaplanes
Roger and thanks.

Its quite a master-piece you're giving birth to . . .

(PM received and replied to)